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No B/S/T.(community moderated)(community moderated). I recently purchased an Evil Omen and a Trilogy Autococker. Had to do some work on the both of them and was admiring their designs.
(Coincidentally, both had air leaking down the barrels.)Why is the autococker so complicated? So much pneumatics on the front, PLUS a cocking rod on the outside, PLUS a sear(lug)/hammer. But the Evil Omen (also a closed bolt system) has such a simple design (besides the funky cam feeding system, but even that is simple) and functions much the same. Sear + hollow hammer + bolt spring. That's basically it. Any cocker fans care to enlighten me on what the benefits of such a complex system?.
Cockers were one of the first semiauto designs and as such are basically pump guns (WGP Snipers) converted to actuate themselves. Stacked tube blow backs are a derivative of the Sheridan/sniper/autococker design except instead of cycling manually or via pneumatics, the valve vents air to recock the hammer. This is much simpler and more reliable but it's also more difficult to tune because the whole system must be in balance for the gun to recock.Autocockers are much more flexible to tune because the firing sequence and cycling sequence are not as firmly linked. This ends up being a sort of double edged sword because it allows an experienced owner to fine tune the gun to a high degree, but it also opens up many ways in which the gun can be misadjusted or fall out of time and cease to function.Back in the day STBB guns were considered high/mid end and you could actually get well tuned guns like the ICD cat series and Montneel's Z line. These days STBB guns are considered low ends so most manufactures tune them for reliability more than anything else, which leads to lots of kick, not to mention they are just cheaply made to begin with.The omen is a blow back like a spyder but it shares a similar bolt layout with a cocker in that it's a closed bolt system.
I believe omens do offer a way to adjust the recock pressure so they are more adjustable than your typical spyder but still need to be balanced to work well. IMHO the bolt layout is actually more of a hinderance than anything because it's more complicated than an open bolt would be and without any advantage. Although it may have had to do with the cam system. I'm not sure why they used that in the first place. I think it was intended to decrease chopping with agitated loaders.I think part of the Omen's design was also evil trying to capitalize on the popular closed bolt myths because contemporary STBB designs had gotten a bad rap and without the funky bolt/loading system the Omen is just a spyder clone (be it a nice one). They ended up with a funky but very neat gun. Thanks for the reply and explanation.I believe omens do offer a way to adjust the recock pressure so they are more adjustable than your typical spyder but still need to be balanced to work well.Yeah, they do have an adjustment for re-cocking pressure.
Very easy to do and a good amount of up and down to play with. Though adjusting it too high can cause some damage to internals (mostly o-rings).IMHO the bolt layout is actually more of a hinderance than anything because it's more complicated than an open bolt would be and without any advantage.Well I agree there, but I would also argue that closed-bolt does not offer any advantage on any marker, high end auto-cocker or not.Although it may have had to do with the cam system. I'm not sure why they used that in the first place.
I think it was intended to decrease chopping with agitated loaders.Before the always on positive pressure feed hoppers, the Evil Omen offered a way to guarantee a ball in the chamber every time, even without electronic eyes. This part of the EO is ingeniously simple, yet effective.without the funky bolt/loading system the Omen is just a spyder clone (be it a nice one). They ended up with a funky but very neat gun.Agreed all around there. But spyders are actually fairly efficient on air, are they not? Are auto-cockers actually better on air than STBBs?And what about recharge rate? I can't imagine the auto-cocker design could be that much better at recharging than a STBB, can it?
(Also, I just realized that the EO's recharge rate is dependent on how fast the bolt spring can return it to a closed position and that spring is not very big)Another question on cockers, can you adjust them so that you have little to no chance of short-stroking? Or is that just a training issue for the user?EDIT: Grammar and spelling. Yea cockers were only really closed bolt because the pumps they were based off of were as well. There were a lot of myths about closed bolt guns having X, Y, and Z benefits but they've mostly disappeared now as people wised up.As far as being more or less efficient, that depends on a lot of factors and I'm not sure that one platform is significantly more or less efficient than the other.
I would think that cockers have the potential to be more efficient than your standard spyder just from the availability of aftermarket parts but it's certainly possible to design a highly efficient STBB. (kingman claims their EKO valve is more efficient).One gun being better than another is almost purely preference. I think the adjustable nature of cockers helped their popularity in the long run.
Players could set them up to their exact preference be it HPA, CO2, trigger pull, heavy hammers, light hammer, HP, LP, different frames, etc etc.Recharge rate was never an issue with either platform, as long as the regs can keep up the guns will shoot. A cocker's cycle speed will be limited primarily by the ram and a stock one only really becomes an potential issue when you get to electro speeds.STBB guns have extremely high cycle speeds (30CPS+). However for many people this is one of their drawbacks because a blow back's cycle is so violent it can lead to more perceived kick and barrel rise with sustained fire. Other stacked tube poppit guns like EGOs and Timmys are similar to STBB guns so they also have higher cycle speeds and often get reputations for kicking. Spool valve guns have much lower speeds so they often feel smoother.The omen's cycle speed is probably limited by the bolt spring. The bottom tube will cycle very quickly like a normal blow back but the bolt moves forward on it's own so it might be slower.
Although I don't think it would ever be an issue at anything but utterly insane speeds. The omen would probably have a decent amount of kick like any STBB.
I don't personally mind kick but some people do.Short stroking is an issue of the user not pulling the trigger all the way and not completely actuating the gun. The best fix is to remember to fully pull and release the trigger. You can also set the gun up with the fireing point and actuation point very close together but it can be difficult to do and leaves little margin for error as things wiggle out of place over time. Aftermarket 3 ways can also help by allowing for shorter pulls. Yes automags are very quick! Automags run at much higher pressures somewhere around 4-600 I believe, and RT mags can push upwards of 1000psi to get the response effect. Basically modern spool valve guns have opted for super low pressures which requires a higher volume of air to be used.
Filling a larger chamber at a low pressure slows them down, which ends up actually being a good thing. One downside is that some guns tend to operate on the fringe of reliability and may encounter low velocity on the first shot or bolt stick in bad weather. A change of seasons estate sales. I believe there are board settings to help counter these problems now. Bolt friction becomes more of an issue so users need to keep their guns well maintained.
A mag on the other hand can keep ticking for years without so much as even changing an oring. Yes automags are very quick! Automags run at much higher pressures somewhere around 4-600 I believe, and RT mags can push upwards of 1000psi to get the response effect.Yeah, I run my RT at 800-850. Very fast, no shoot-down and good response (not full-auto).A mag on the other hand can keep ticking for years without so much as even changing an oring.I just bought a super old one the other day. Man was it horribly maintained, rust everywhere, still wet from paint and whatever else. But it fired up just fine.
Vinegar works wonders for rust.That all makes sense on the electro spools. I'm just getting back into paintball this past year, so I don't know too much about the history of the electro spools. The modern spools electros I have don't seem to have too much trouble, but I haven't played with them that long. There weren't blowback closed bolt designs when the autococker was designed.No, but had they actually liked the design of blowback, I think they might have experimented. Seems to me that both WGP and AGD had a distaste for blowback (and maybe rightly so).
So they didn't even try.I agree the design is fascinating. I was an Automag guy and love my automags. But now I just love all markers of all kinds. The auto-cocker is a fascinating design and fun to play with.I'll probably end up putting a pump kit on it, but it's really neat.
Evil Omen Paintball Gun For Sale
You'd have to ask Bud Orr that.Heh, I'd love to chat with Bud Orr.I believe the VM68 was a blowback. Maybe they couldn't figure out a way to make a closed-bolt blowback.Ahh. I found some interesting stuff on wikipedia on the ): 'The blow back design was deemed to be too primitive (because pump markers changed in 1988, they got removable barrels and quickstrip pins) so a second generation prototype 'P2' (for Panther Prototype Two) was developed. This second design was also a blow back, and had many problems. It was decided to give up on blow back technology and re-engineer the entire action into a 'blow-forward' design.'
Evil Omen Paintball Gun Review
So AGD apparently thought blowback was too primitive. I'd guess WGP thought so, too. Yeah and it seems that paintball makers just don't change their designs much. Look at Automags, Spyders, PMI, Dye, etc, etc.I guess I can't blame them too much, since it's a 'Why change what's not broken' thing?I am just really fascinated with valve design. Every time I take apart a marker, I just admire the design of the valves from standard blow-backs (spyder, piranha, some electros) to blow-forwards (automag) to modern spools. Also, the Evil Omen's cam feed system is ingeniously simple and effective.I've yet to get my hands on an Invert Mini, but that one also fascinates me.